The Dangers of AA Fundamentalism
By Andy F.
My name is Andy, and I’m an alcoholic. I arrived in AA on May 15th, 1984, after many years of drinking. I loved AA from the outset. I had found a family atmosphere that was missing from childhood. I was placed in foster care at an early age and subjected to very religious regimes, including church several times a week. Sadly, there was no love, only coldness, rejection, and criticism. Childhood needs for acceptance and love were absent. Through my childlike eyes, I stopped believing that God even existed. He was never there in the religious family that I grew up in.
My biological mother took me out of foster care when I was nine years old. She sent me to a Catholic Boarding School for the remainder of my education. The strict religious doctrines continued, and by my early teens, I had rejected anything to do with God and religion.
When I first arrived at AA, I was full of resentment toward everything and everyone, including God and religion. Reading through the twelve steps, I was horrified that the old nemesis had returned. Step two spoke of a higher power, and step three mentioned God. At the time, God and a higher power meant the same thing. I quickly realized this would be too challenging and impossible for an unbeliever.
As a confirmed agnostic, I was unwilling to get a sponsor and be guided through the program. Rejecting the twelve steps resulted in misery and relapse for many years in AA. Eventually, I came across an agnostic-friendly sponsor. He agreed to take me through the program, suggesting I use AA itself as a power greater than me. It worked! I am now 27 years sober and have the privilege of helping other atheists and agnostics through the program.
I suffered so much as a serial relapser that I became passionate about carrying a message of hope to other non-believers in recovery. I wrote a book about my experiences going through the steps as an agnostic and became an avid blogger.
About a year ago, a friend suggested that I post my blogs on a website that had a forum for alcoholics. It is called “I drink too much.” All kinds of blogs and articles are written there, mainly by AA members. My blogs are about my experiences in AA as an agnostic. Almost immediately, the articles I posted started to attract judgment and criticism. It was always from the same group of AA members. I would describe them as ‘Big Book thumpers.’ These people take the Big Book literally and believe that you can’t stay sober without God.
A contributor to the forum strongly suggested that I refrain from posting more content on the forum. He insinuated that Secular AA is a subversive movement in the fellowship and undermines the unity of AA. He went on to say that an agnostic or atheist position in AA has nothing to do with the pure and undiluted message described in the Big Book. This member suggested that I was harming newcomers by telling them that they could get sober without God, which came as a shock.
Several weeks later, he felt compelled to write me a private email on the forum. He told me that I was corrupting the AA program with my articles. In the interests of newcomers to AA, he tried to dissuade me from contributing any further articles promoting agnostic recovery. And yet, here I was, living proof that it is possible to achieve a happy and lasting sobriety without the need to believe in a deity.
Then, he made a statement that left me lost for words. As someone with 40 years in the program, I couldn’t believe what I heard. What he said struck me as being in total conflict with the all-inclusive ethos of AA. Of course, the third tradition of AA instructs us that he has every right to pursue his recovery in any way that works for him. Conversely, I have every right to work my program as an agnostic.
“The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.”
I cannot deny that I felt uncomfortable with the aggressive way in which he imposed his views as if they were infallible and sacrosanct.
Here is what he said:
“You can’t be a real alcoholic if you don’t believe in God.”
I wondered how newly sober members would react if told that they couldn’t be ‘real’ alcoholics if they didn’t believe in God. What is a ‘real’ alcoholic anyway? Was this the very thing a newcomer wanted to hear? What better excuse to go back out drinking than for an alcoholic to go back out and research whether or not they are a ‘real’ alcoholic? Most members of AA are aware that no one in the fellowship is qualified to offer a diagnosis of anyone’s drinking problem except the alcoholic himself. (BB “More about alcoholism” page 31)
I became concerned about the impact of such a declaration on confused, sometimes vulnerable newcomers. Many have little or no faith in God or greater power. What might happen to them if extremists began influencing them? How many non-believers might walk away from AA after hearing this type of rhetoric?
As an agnostic member of AA, I found this statement to be one of the most dishonest, divisive, and destructive declarations I have ever heard in the fellowship. Of course, it is his right to believe in anything he wants, but could he harm newcomers by forcefully imposing his ideas on them?
I felt an obligation to make newly sober members aware of the dangers of this type of fundamentalism. It is not the first time I’ve encountered an extremist approach to recovery. Years ago, when I was still struggling with relapse, I came into contact with a hard-core splinter group in London. I witnessed dangerous beliefs and attitudes that had nothing to do with the principles of AA.
I decided to document my experiences of fundamentalism in AA, which reminded me of cult-like religious fundamentalism. I wrote a short book called “You can’t be a real alcoholic if you don’t believe in God”. The book is available for free download by scrolling down on the homepage of my website:
If you find value in the content of this short publication, please share it with others. Many lost and vulnerable newcomers may benefit from increasing their awareness. I hope that they avoid getting involved with a fundamentalist sponsor or splinter group.
Andy F went to his first meeting on May 15th, 1984. Having had negative experiences with religion and religious people in childhood, he found it impossible to embrace the twelve steps. Frequent references to God and a higher power put him off completely. He decided to pursue his recovery through therapy. Unfortunately, it didn’t keep him sober. He became a serial relapser and, several times, came close to losing his life. Eventually, he was lucky to find an experienced oldtimer happy to work with an agnostic. Andy was able to stay sober and recreate his life. It’s now been twenty-seven years since his last relapse. He is committed to sponsorship and has become an avid blogger. Andy’s blogs are about his experiences in recovery as an agnostic alcoholic.
For a PDF of this article, click here: The Dangers of AA Fundamentalism.
First edition is basic text book…1939 4th edition big book answering on god..by cofounder Dr.bob…page 181…need I say more?
Thanks for your comment, Arnie. Although Dr Bob may have felt sorry for atheists and agnostics in AA, it’s been many years since I have felt sorry for myself. Thats all that matters. The program works whether you believe in God or not.
Among the many core lies of AA is the notion of a higher power. Since your brain decides what force or entity to imbue with the autonomy to relieve your suffering from alcoholism, it is elemental logic that there can be no higher power than your own brain. Your brain decides what it will accept as relief and what “thing(s)” are capable of delivering the relief. Since the efficacy derives solely from your psyche, there is no power that is superior to it. Thus, only you are your higher power—sure, you can wrap this truth in all sorts of metaphysical bullshit to support the corollary delusions that you have a “disease” over which you are “powerless”, but the core truth is unassailable: you cannot be powerless because you alone decide what has dominion over your alcoholism. And because AA necessarily concedes such authority in you, you cannot suffer from a disease. The longer this truth is obfuscated from the alcoholic to steer him toward Christian faith, the more fragile the sobriety and the greater the likelihood that any attempt at sobriety will fail. So much for “gut level honesty”. Indeed, AA is nothing more than a set of delusions falsely erected to relieve you of guilt over the consequences of your own behavioral foibles. You chose these consequences and had the power to enact or decline the behaviors producing them. No disease did this; you did it willingfully and under no compulsion from anything but your own brain. As convenient as it is to blame them on some independent bogeyman, isn’t such denial the sina qua non of alcoholic behavior. Indeed, the program itself refers to these lapses as “shortcomings” which insinuates can be prayed away, after which all is forgiven and all fault erased. Does anyone’s own experience empirically verify such hogwash? I think not. As long as AA sets itself up as only deliverer of the bogus absolution which it purports to offer, it will remain confined to the inability to do only one thing with consistency and reliability: fail 10 of the 11 people that walk through its hallowed, but hollow portals. That is the “gut level honesty” AA would prefer to keep hidden and which informs its well documented intolerance of any belief other than one in the Christian god.
I don’t have a god, a higher power or even a spirituality. I’m 31 years clean. 12 steps are a religious pathology written by pathologist.
I love the quote saying « everything we know is subject to revision, especially what we know about the truth ».
To all the people claiming that they were saved by god, I say no. God saved the society FROM you.
Having attended many hundreds of meetings back before agnostic AA was a thing, I can say that I found groups with many varied levels of religiosity and Big Book canonisation. Not surprising, if we remember the strange “inverted triangle” structure of AA: each group is independent and the group is the final authority in AA. If you were to somehow poll a large sample of groups across some region, I would expect the attitudes of religiosity to pretty much mirror the population of that area. And in North America, the rise of more extreme religious/conservative thought over the past few decades seems pretty much mirrored by what many of us have seen as a growth of the same attitudes in AA meetings. Why not?
But there is also a growth in the number of people who report themselves as “none” or “Agnostic” or “atheist” in polls and on census forms. So…up pops a counter-culture AA made up of secular groups. Why not? Seems perfectly logical.
The problem for a godless newcomer is knowing this and finding the right groups. There is no central AA government that even cares about such things. Ever see a press release from the GSO that offered any opinion on anything? It’s just not set up that way. So any statement that includes “AA would prefer to…” needs some explanation. What is this AA that has preferences? Just a group of groups that at the moment seem to be in the majority. But they have no power other than their own internal “social correctness”.
Happily, we now have this Internet thing, and some lucky few drunks looking for sobriety will find the secular branch right away. But the vast majority of the population who has never (yet) been involved with AA as no idea of all these things. To the outsider, AA is considered a monolithic, normally structured top-led organisation like Microsoft or any other famous company. When the moment comes to finally drag your butt to a meeting, you take your chances. If you live in a bible belt, you are likely to get a bible meeting.
So the question to me is how to get the word out that not all AA is the same. (It never was, but that seemed to matter less many years ago.) There have been suggestions that “Agnostic AA” split off and start its own new organisation, whatever that might be. That seems a bit improbable to me. I have no answer. Change is always difficult. Maybe just time, word of mouth and Internet searches will take care of it.
Thanks, Chris. You wrote in your post, “The problem for a godless newcomer is knowing this.” That’s why I wrote the book. To increase awareness among newcomers, they need to know what is on offer in AA to make an informed choice about how they want to pursue their recovery. Have a great day.
I totally relate to your view. I wrote a book too: I’LL TAKE GOD – HOLD THE RELIGION.
Thanks, Irene. I wish you every success with your book!
Thank you Andy for your post and sharing your blog. As a fellow agnostic alcoholic, I always feel guilty for not attending meetings, not speaking at meetings, always not doing enough… ultimately because of the religious fundamentals. I would be grateful to find an old timer who supports agnostic. I look forward to reading “You can’t be an alcoholic if you don’t believe I God.”
Thanks for your feedback, Louise. Best wishes, Andy F
Thanks so much for sharing your story. I’ve been a sober atheist in and outside of AA since May 13, 1991. The more work I do in harm reduction-based peer recovery (my day job) and recovery advocacy (my night job), the more I see these attitudes literally killing people (and don’t get me started on NA).
I rarely go to meetings anymore because of these attitudes, unless they are non-believer-focused or friendly. I find young people’s meetings and especially LGBTQIA+ meetings much more open-minded.
What I tell people I work with is that when AA recommends 90 meetings in 90 days it doesn’t mean the *same* damn meeting! It can take quite a few to find a comfortable one. Fortunately, there are now virtual ones that meet people’s needs, and AA isn’t the only game in town. Most of my recovery these days is in SMART Recovery and Recovery Dharma which together give me even more than AA did, in a fundamentalist-free environment.
Thanks for your feedback. Best wishes, Andy F
Thanks, Tom. I, too, have seen hard-core religious fundamentalism “Literally killing people” in 12-step fellowships. That is why I wrote the book. Something has to be said, and said loudly to protect newcomers!
Thank you very much! We need to speak up for people who cannot tolerate dogma! We need to be inclusive not exclusive in AA. Atheists want recovery too! I tell people “I do not rely on anything outside of myself to fix me. I have honed my inner power to do that job. Yes its work. But the reward is i get to know who i am as a sober person. And so far that has not failed me, after 12+ years in AA”
I try not to add: “why RELY on anything other than YOU?”
Because we know darn well what the response would be.
I try & seek out people like us by speaking up.
It has to be done carefully & compassionately from my experience. But I get my voice heard.
And THAT is what a fellowship is for!
Yes Yvonne, we need to speak up…….and yes, it needs to be done carefully and compassionately. We all have a right to be here regardless of our faith or lack of it. Thanks for your share.
Andy
Thank you Andy. Much I related to. Thank you for all of your efforts and work…started reading your book…pdf, very gracious. Again thank you. Coming up on 36 years next month I sometimes question my continued attendance at meetings. I know a lot of wonderful people in AA is one reason! & the opportunity is there to be an example of someone who is living a full, honest, satisfying life sober without a belief in God. Some folks need a definitive creator or guide. Collective wisdom is a power greater than me. So grateful for the “take what works” & “live and let live” reminders.
So glad to be getting aaagnostica posts again!
Hi Teresa, Thanks for your post. Technically, tradition Three should keep us all safe and accepted in AA, but with religious fundamentalism, that isn’t always the case. Like you, I have sometimes questioned my attendance at meetings, but I know in my heart that I will never leave. Over the years, I have learned how to practice discernment and only surround myself with people that I resonate with. Have a great 24 hours.
The “not a real alcoholic” thing is a pretty common way of explaining the presence of sober atheists. Real alcoholics need God to get sober. Ergo, those who get sober without God’s grace were never real alcoholics in the first place.
Pure tautology but cute.
Hi Bob, Thanks for your post. To tell anyone in AA that they can’t be a real alcoholic if they don’t believe in God is, in my view, incredibly divisive and dishonest. Have a peaceful and serene 24 hours!
I became an alcoholic without god and I stay sober without god.
Amen! Thanks for reinforcing that!
Outstanding! The tripe that pours from some old timers is truly foul and astonishing. I have been sober almost 21 years as I write this and without God, god, goddess, that or any other form of supreme being. The program helped, friends in and out of the rooms helped but me not taking a drink was and is the key. Sadly enough too many of the Big Book Thumpers also have a motif of “a god I can do business with” which in their minds sacralizes sexual and financial predation on newcomers. Enough said. Thanks again!
Thanks, Andrew. It never ceases to amaze me how much BS comes out of the mouths of Big Book Thumpers that happen to be oldtimers. I sometimes wonder if, despite their length of time in the program, they are not more unwell than newcomers.
I was at a book study meeting once and the topic was “turning it over to God” and it was my turn, so I shared that my higher consciousness is the teachings of the Buddha, which are similar to the program, and that those thoughts guide my actions. At the next meeting, a woman said, “There is only ONE higher power and that is GOD and God only”, etc. ad nauseum. Needless to say, I never returned. Fortunately, there are other meetings today that are gentler.
Jackie (29 years sober).
Hi Jackie, I mentioned how much harm was done to a newcomer at a Big Book study group in my book. Her crime was that she was on antidepressant medication. Wishing you a peaceful and serene 24 hours.
Andy. I’m 43 years sober, didn’t believe in God when I got here, and still don’t believe in god.
Congratulations on your 43 years of recovery. We are living proof that you can get sober without God. Have a great 24!
Thanks Andy and Roger; Arrived in AA about the same month you did but only slipped for 3 years with little understanding of how the heck those guys “worked” the steps. Still don’t know, but having read your booklet (excellent resource for a sponsee who really wants to use the BB to achieve sobriety in my opinion) I can see how you made it make some sense by adding later wisdom from Bill. Congratulations. Meanwhile I’m going to keep trundling along seeking to increase my own feelings of contentment and virtue through aaagnostica, Beyond Belief (the book and my meeting), Living Sober Without God, and stoic philosophy.
Thanks for your kind words, Lance. Despite his white light experience at the Towns hospital, Bill will always be my hero. Have a great 24 hours!
A lot of chit gets spread in a lot of AA meetings. Secular meetings and ZOOM have supplied relief from much of that. Praise the LAWD!!!!
I have been sober for over 37 years. I attend an AA meeting close to home once a week. I have not had a sponsor for probably over 33 years. I have attended many different AA meetings over the years and encountered a lot of different people in recovery. I am often reminded of the story “The Vicious Cycle” which is in my older third edition of the big book. I guess I consider myself an agnostic (having been raised Catholic) in that I find the usual conception of God just doesn’t work for me. Andy is right, the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. It even says in the book “we are not saints.” I find some good things in AA literature but I have also found support for my recovery in other places outside of AA, including other religions and philosophies. All I know is that I have a happy sobriety today and look forward to tomorrow. If someone in AA is coming on a little too strong I reminded myself we are all imperfect human beings.
Thank you for your comments, Suzie. They are especially appreciated offered by an oldtimer with 37 years of sobriety.
Have a great 24 hours!
It’s through AA meetings I was able to find a home. By listening and sharing our stories I was able to define what I am. In a way what our experiences show us is that we are imperfect, we’ve all been lost and found ourselves and we were wounded and healed. We listen and can see what is common amongst us, the reality we are not alone. This sense of community or family is what gives us a place to live where we can honestly give and receive, be weak and strong, and fail and succeed. Our stories reveal our humanity and give us humility. The sharing disarms my inner critic by listening and sharing I’m able to discern rather than judge because our stories are similar. By being a part of a whole my ego becomes less dominant, my world expands, I’m no longer the center I’m part of a family. With our stories of demoralization, defeat, struggle, victory, it has lead me to the realization that I can heal and face life as it is.
I also had a problem with a higher power and had a few failed attempts using AA, the longest being 18 months. My most recent attempt did not involve AA at all. Much of my adult life I had been resisting acceptance of a mental illness – Type 2 Bipolar Disorder. In April of this year, it was 7 years since I accepted the diagnosis and started taking a mood stabilizer. In June, I reached 7 years of sobriety. I did a personal 1 step program – stop drinking. No relapses, no trouble being around it and no strong urges to fight. Just clarity about my inability to control it. I am also just entering retirement and I know the bad stats on problem drinkers in retirement.
From my times in AA, off and on over a couple of decades, I did find that I could steer clear of the God discussions much of the time. The biggest problem I had with it is sitting around listening to people talking about how much they loved drinking and how strong the attraction is. Another issue was coddling people for slips or relapses.
Thanks for sharing Andy. I also received a mental health diagnosis after about 20 years in the program. It was Borderline Personality Disorder. With the help of meds and an Agnostic interpretation of the steps, I am enjoying peace and happiness for the first time in my life. I was able to come off my meds about 15 years ago and I avoid the “God squad” in AA. Thanks for sharing Andy. Have a great 24 hours!