Is AA a Religion?
By Andy F.
The stigma of religiosity
Over the years, the question of whether AA is a religious organization has always been controversial and contentious. To many lay people who are not members, it has gained a reputation for being a religion. Some of the more extreme opinions even tend toward the idea that AA is a religious cult.
These are myths about AA that need to be cleared up. This is an important question because some alcoholics who don’t believe in God don’t bother coming to AA because they believe AA to be a religion. One has to wonder how many of them drink themselves into oblivion, assuming that the fellowship has nothing to offer them. The unfortunate stigma that AA appears to have developed is that alcoholics cannot get sober without God.
The AA preamble
At the beginning of every meeting worldwide, the AA preamble is read. This short reading tells us what AA is and what it isn’t. For the purposes of this blog, it is worth quoting the preamble in full. This simple statement should dispel any misgiving about AA’s primary purpose:
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of people who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self- supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
Every religion also comes under the definition of an institution, organization, denomination, or even sect. In its preamble, AA makes it very clear that it is not allied with any of these outside bodies. AA’s primary purpose is read out at the beginning of every meeting: to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety. Isn’t it self-evident that the founders of AA always intended the fellowship to be non-religious?
The “God” word in the Twelve Steps
Yes, it is true to say that Bill Wilson did include the word “God” in five of the twelve steps and a “Power greater than ourselves” in Step Two. On the insistence of Jim Burwell, AA’s first atheist, Bill agreed to add the clause “as we understand him” after Steps Three and Eleven. Moreover, a Power greater than ourselves does in no way allude to a supernatural deity. It is quite simply a power greater than our own individual power. Bill Wilson, the co-founder of AA, himself makes the following statement on page 27 in Step Two of The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions.
“You can if you wish make AA itself your “higher power.” Here’s a very large group of people who have solved their alcohol problem. In this respect, they are certainly a power greater than you.” Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions – p. 27
Do you think that, as one of the co-founders of AA, Bill Wilson was trying to start a religion by making this statement?
The “God” word pamphlet
Over the years, there has been harm caused to alcoholics trying to get sober in AA who identify as atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers. This harm has come from false and misleading beliefs about AA, both outside the fellowship and, sadly, within it. Several years ago, AA agreed to publish a new “conference-approved” pamphlet. It can be found on the literature table of most AA meetings. It is called the “God” word and is the work of a group in London, UK. It is known as the Thursday Islington Agnostic, Atheist, and Freethinkers group. The opening line of this AA pamphlet is, “AA is not a religious organization.” You can read the entire pamphlet here.
The Lord’s prayer
Recently, at one of my home groups, the person elected to lead the meeting did something that I am sure most members of the secular fellowship would feel uncomfortable with. I wasn’t present at this particular meeting but was told about it by an AA buddy who was. At the close of the meeting, he asked everyone to stand and recite the Lord’s Prayer. Do you think this action could be considered standard AA practice?
This of course, would have been perfectly acceptable if reciting the Lord’s prayer at the end of the meeting was unanimously agreed at group conscience, but it wasn’t. This member’s personal position may well have been that AA is a religious organization. Although the Lord’s prayer may be a powerful spiritual invocation for many, unless specifically voted in by a group conscience, it has no place at an AA meeting.
Quite simply, the Lord’s prayer does not appear in the AA literature. As such, it is not part of the program of recovery from alcoholism as outlined in any of the AA literature.
In conclusion, the Lord’s prayer belongs to the Christian religion. Although AA did have its early roots in the Oxford Group, which was an evangelical Christian movement, modern AA is a recovery program of recovery from alcoholic addiction. As such, it should not be affiliated with any outside religious institution.
The Third Tradition and Tenth Tradition in particular emphasize the non-religious and inclusive nature of the fellowship:
Third Tradition (Long Form):
“Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence, we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.”
This ensures that belief (or lack thereof) is not a condition of membership.
Tenth Tradition (Short Form):
“Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.”
This prevents the organization from aligning itself with any specific religion, politics, or sect.
Its Twelve Steps are spiritual not religious in nature.
Religious fundamentalism in AA
It seems clear from the evidence presented that, contrary to widespread opinion, AA is not a religion. At best, it may be described as a quasi-religion. That said, based on my own personal experience, a disturbing reality has beset Alcoholics Anonymous. Although there is no doubt that AA is not a religion, splinter groups have formed in the fellowship. There is no other way to describe them than to call them religious fundamentalists.
These groups arrogantly ignore everything that Bill Wilson ever said about the inclusivity of AA.
Responsibility Is Our Theme
Newcomers are approaching AA at the rate of tens of thousands yearly. They represent almost every belief and attitude imaginable. We have atheists and agnostics. We have people of nearly every race, culture and religion. In AA we are supposed to be bound together in the kinship of a common suffering. Consequently, the full individual liberty to practice any creed or principle or therapy whatever should be a first consideration for us all. Let us not, therefore, pressure anyone with our individual or even our collective views. Let us instead accord each other the respect and love that is due to every human being as he tries to make his way toward the light. Let us always try to be inclusive rather than exclusive; let us remember that each alcoholic among us is a member of AA, so long as he or she so declares.
Bill W.
In stark contrast to the inclusivity always encouraged by Bill, these religious fundamentalists flatly declare that no alcoholic can get sober without God. If you remain an atheist, agnostic, or freethinker and stay sober, then you could not have been an alcoholic in the first place.
When I was a newcomer, I was lost, vulnerable, and desperate to stop drinking. One day, I found myself in what I perceived to be a very positive and powerful meeting. After it was over, the regular members took my phone number and began calling me and inviting me to coffee. It was terrific for a lonely and marginalized alcoholic to suddenly become the center of attention.
The sharing at the meeting was very upbeat and dynamic. The focus was on sponsorship and the Big Book. They liked to believe that they had a superior brand of AA. If you followed their suggestion, your recovery would be fast-tracked. Little did I know that I fell into the snare of a cult-like splinter group. It was hardcore religious fundamentalism.
The religious aspect was veiled at first and hidden behind an unconditional surrender to a Big Book sponsor. By the time I realized what was really going on, quite a lot of harm had been caused through hardcore sponsorship, which turned out to be nothing more than bullying. It was like any other cult. Once deeply involved, it was not easy to break away from. I was fortunate and got a lot of support in mainstream AA. Regular members helped to gradually deprogram me from the brainwashing I received through this type of fundamentalism.
Some years later, I wrote a short book which I called, “You can’t be a real alcoholic if you don’t believe in God.” A free PDF download is available on my website’s homepage. If you scroll down the homepage, you will find a link to the book’s copy.
In conclusion, although AA is definitely not a religion, sadly, there are religious splinter groups within the fellowship. I believe that with the growth of secular AA, these fundamentalist groups are gradually becoming the minority. That said, they are still a reality on the AA landscape. These groups pose a danger to newcomers, some of whom may be lost and vulnerable. Joining these groups may seem attractive at first, as their message seems attractive at first. The newcomer is promised a life beyond their wildest dreams and a relationship with God that will solve all their problems.
Of course, everyone has a personal belief system, and if it helps them get sober, that’s ok. That said, trying to influence or force anyone into what they believe is diametrically opposed to the spiritual ethos of AA.
Stay safe.
Andy F. went to his first meeting on May 15th, 1984. Having had negative experiences with religion and religious people in childhood, he found it impossible to embrace the twelve steps. Frequent references to God and a higher power put him off completely. He decided to pursue his recovery through therapy. Unfortunately, it didn’t keep him sober. He became a serial relapser and, several times, came close to losing his life. Eventually, he was lucky to find an experienced oldtimer happy to work with an agnostic. Andy was able to stay sober and recreate his life. It’s now been twenty-seven years since his last relapse. He is committed to sponsorship and has become an avid blogger. Andy’s blogs are about his experiences in recovery as an agnostic alcoholic.
For more information about Andy and the books that he has written and published, click here: https://aaforagnostics.com/. And, for a PDF of this article, click here: Is AA a Religion?
A Power Greater Than Ourselves in only mentioned once in Step Two.
We then progress to God in Step Three and onwards.
It’s bait and switch. First get a concept of a Power Greater Than Ourselves and then progress to a full God.
A God is a all-powerful, supernatural power. Check out a dictionary.
If that’s your higher power, all well and fine. If not then you need to read ‘We Agnostics’ in the Big Book. You will see there how to progress to get in ‘conscious companionship with your Creator’ and ‘humbly offer yourself to your Maker’.
If like me you find that too much. Change the third step to replace ‘God of our understanding’ to ‘Good’ or something similar in spirit of the programme.
Thanks for your comments P. Lind. My agnostic- friendly sponsor told me not to worry about the “God” word in Step Three. The “decision” I was being asked to make in step three was simply a decision to go on with the rest of the steps. That worked for me. I used AA itself as a “power greater than me.” Best wishes.
I understand. I got the same advice as well.
However, I was also told I shouldn’t just ignore parts of the programme I don’t like, especially such an important part as one of the steps.
In the end after genuinely trying to work the third step as written, I decided to take Bill Wilson’s advice and change God to Good.
Many courts rightfully have ruled AA is religious. I sampled many groups and all were these “splinter groups” noted by the author. Frankly I’m fed up with the apologists for AA. a 7-12% success rate? and what percent is due to the god talk allowed? What Bill W never said or assumed was how many newcomers leave AA because of the religiosity. Thank God… or your higher power secular AA has evolved. I have no idea where these traditional AA groups exist that don’t promote God.
Thanks for your comments Frank. In my traditional AA group in Thailand, only about half of the group believe in God and only about 10% are religious. Best wishes
Well sadly I’m in the USA not Thailand.
Definition of religion is worship of God or Gods. I prefer preamble definition of AA, and Big Book as means of creating the fellowship you crave (support Group, family or community that meets regularly). Big Book by example, not worshipping the Steps and Book book words themselves as higher power. AA isn’t a religion, but reading of “How It Works” and the practice of many alcoholics coming out of rehab experiencing “Back to Basics” Big Book sponsorship, appears to re-emphasize the 1939 Orthodox Oxford Group AA origins and God language. A lot of AA where I live, influenced by large number treatment centers and feel like religious revival praise God services, and meetings, and Fellowship of home Group community feels unconnecting, if don’t repeat the same things everyone else saying. In same way mom and pop hamburger joints, became McDonald’s, perhaps AA experiencing a similar spread of this Orthodox God based AA.
My experience and prefer for the preamble as source of Unity in AA, and excessive use of God term at meetings can drive away and hurt new comers, and make alcoholics without similar God beliefs, not feel part of AA. Less may be more maybe.
Thanks for your comments George. I was hurt by the fundamentalist “Big Book Thumpers” when I was a newcomer. This is why I wrote “You can’t be a real alcoholic if you don’t believe in God”. A free PDF copy is available on my website. Best wishes
I needed that reminder today, as I prepare for our one secular meeting a week. Last weeks post helped me instead to feel very impressed and impassioned last at that little meeting and could have done great damage to a couple of relative newcomers. And it is my responsibility to be there and to try to follow the democratic traditions of AA as well as possible for me. Not for them as they need time to develop the love for AA tradition and it’s benefits that I feel. I hope for the best and renew myself to the goal of only caring for the problem of addiction today as that is the one problem we all have struggled to overcome.
Thank you.
Exactly Lance! “Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety.” That’s it! The AA preamble is clear. The God stuff is irrelevant to our primary purpose if we don’t focus on it too much. Best wishes
As a nonbeliever, when I read a little about AA before walking in the rooms, and then walked in and read the steps and traditions on the wall, along with the AA slogans (“Let go and let God,” “Trust God, Clean House, Help Others,” etc.), the thought that came to me was that if I had to convert to Christianity in order to get sober, I was fucked. End of story. But enough folks shared of their inability to stop drinking on their own, and that going one day without drinking was possible, so don’t drink today, come back tomorrow, without any suggestion that I drop down on my knees, I figured I’d stick around and see if anything took.
Fortunately, it did, especially after reading the book “Bill, the Buddha, and We.” Apart from being a straightforward guide to how to live stark raving sober, it also offered a way to exist and even thrive in the rooms amidst all the believers and their “God could and would if he were sought” ideas, even a way to participate in “The Lord’s Prayer” without feeling insincere. That said, I have tended to find meetings with more of the nonbelievers and apostate.
So yesterday, while visiting NYC, I caught a meeting in Harlem, ended up as speaker, following which as the speaker, I was supposed to pick the closing prayer. My brain froze. As I think all in the room had mentioned “god” or “higher power” in their shares, I figured “The Lord’s Prayer” would be okay, and all joined in. Still, your essay reminds me that I should have prefaced it as I used to when monitoring meetings: “We’ll close with the —- prayer for those who care to join in,” lest someone new feel that AA requires any kind of conformity.
How about closing with the responsibility statement?
It’s 100% approved by AA members everywhere.
Thanks for your comments Cron. The bottom line is that you shared your message in Harlem which may have saved someone’s life. Everything else was just window dressing. Thanks for your service 🙏
Yes, yes , yes … most definitely …. AA is a religion. A religion where they make up their own rules. No matter how you spin it. It is not a Christian religion. In my opinion, AA has all the characteristics of a cult.
Thanks for your comments BC. I was involved in a group in the UK called “A vision for you” That was a full on cult. I wrote a book about cult like splinter groups in the UK. It’s called “You can’t be a real alcoholic if you don’t believe in God” A free PDF copy is available on my website. Best wishes
While I don’t love the thinly veiled Christianity that is the basis of most traditional AA groups in my area, I am much more uncomfortable with the dogmatic worship of the program, traditions, customs, and folklore of AA in general. I feel like there is an expectation that people become “good” AA’ers. I cringe every time I hear “you never say no to AA” or “I feel bad for normies, they don’t have a program” or any of the other litany of nonsense I hear from people that have adopted AA as their identity. My drinking and subsequent recovery don’t define me; they are simply a part of my life. I couldn’t possibly care less how Bill saw it back in 1939. In fact, I sincerely doubt that Bill would have thought to himself that this book would be a central part of AA nearly 100 years later. I think the founders were free thinkers that had a problem that wasn’t being helped by the methods available at the time, so they made up their own solutions. I think that was the “magic” that made AA special, and it has been lost due to an unwillingness to change. These dogmatic practices even exist here. How many times have I read some new version of the 12 steps on this forum? Seriously, why 12? Why steps? So when I hear people referring to AA as a religion, I get it, I agree with them! You mentioned the treatment industry bringing more fundamentalist religion to AA. I have found the exact opposite, especially for people that are coming from local IOP programs. The ideas or “tools” that they are bringing with them seem really sensible and effective! Maybe it’s time to stop with all the ancient readings, trash the traditions, and step into the 21st century because if we don’t, we may very well end up as just another Oxford group.
Thanks for your comments Rob. I for one am fighting to prevent AA becoming like any other religion. I always clash with the religious fundamentalists in AA. They will be our undoing if we let them. I am grateful that my group in Thailand is very liberal and easy going. Best wishes
Good summary. AA.org lays it out. There is a Solution based on one alcoholic working with another. Full stop.
Thanks for your comments Hal. That’s it! One alcoholic working with another alcoholic. That’s what I try and do. If any member of the God squad starts shoving God down my throat, I smile and walk away. Best regards
When ever I attend a Step Meeting and they read from Step Two, here is what I read from my phone when it’s my turn to share:
How the Non Believer is Addressed for not ‘Coming to Believe’ in Step Two of “The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions”
Page Number:
25 They are called “the belligerent one”
27 Told to “stop fighting”
28 Called “indifferent and self sufficient”
28 Named “defiant”
28 Called “profoundly confused”
28 Told that one is “bewildered”
29 Told that one is “intellectually self sufficient – (and is) too smart”
30 Called “self righteous”
31 Named “defiant” (again)
32 Says that one has the “wrong quality of faith – (and is) self deceived””
Hi Capt Caper. The only section of step two From the 12&12:I focus on is on page 27. “You can if you wish make AA itself your higher power.” That one sentence, saved my life. Best wishes
It’s the dogma brought in by our less respectful members that keep so many potential members at bay. Because of their selfishness many have and will again, die alone. If there were some way to educate these ignorant, belligerent alkies, our membership would skyrocket. And not necessarily into a fourth dimension.
Hi John, This is why I felt compelled to write my book. “You can’t be a real alcoholic if you don’t believe in God.” I wrote it to protect vulnerable newcomers. It’s available as a free PDF download on my website. Best wishes
Thanks, Andy! Great read!
As a person who suffered a lot of trauma from my religious upbringing, I struggled with the highly infused language in AA literature that has the strong implication that once you “get it,” you’ll adopt a Christian-like concept of God.
That didn’t happen for me. That doesn’t make sense at all.
What DOES make sense in the 2nd appendix on Spiritual Awakening in the Big Book, where we’re told that we need to be honest, willing, and open-minded. You’ll notice those are all verbs – not nouns. In other words, it not WHAT I believe, but HOW I believe. Bill doesn’t say “Truth,”, he says “Honesty.” Given the extreme limitations we in terms of understanding and knowledge because of our human form, the “truth” will always change as we learn more. So for me, taking an “honest” approach is more helpful. It also tells me that Socrates was most likely right when he said: “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” The corollary for me is that I have to constantly challenge what I know, what I believe, and how I think. What are my assumptions? Why do I accept those assumptions? etc.
When I look at the steps, there is almost nothing in them that tell me WHAT I have to believe. It’s all about HOW to be sober.
Are there elements within AA that have proclaimed themselves to be all knowing and all powerful? Yes. Are they? No. Both the strength and the weakness in any organization are the people in it. That’s not a surprise, is it? What I’ve found is that people who are absolutely certain there is a God and they know that God are no less annoying and off-the-mark than people who insist there is no God. Two sides of the same coin. Life is journey – not a destination. I don’t like when anyone insists they know the “right” destination, and that they have arrived there.
Your article pointed out several instances where Bill Wilson was big enough to allow people who thought differently than he did to have a place at the table. I’m sure that was, in many ways, difficult for him. But being sober isn’t about finding the easy way.
Thanks for your comments Michael. I took had had negative experiences with religion in my childhood. I call myself a recovering Catholic as well as alcoholic and addict. I mention those experiences in my book “A short guide to the Twelve Steps for Agnostics” It’s available through my website. My spiritual journey has nothing to do with religion today. Best wishes
Good defence, Andy, of AA not being a religious program. Your argument is well-reasoned.
However, as you and most readers of your piece will likely admit, you can argue until you’re blue in the face with someone who believes AA should always be a place where God and a religious perspective reign supreme. Their defence often involves well-argued quotations from AA material, which encourages (or perhaps condemns) AA to be taken this way.
Until the General Conference of AA agrees to rewrite the Big Book, the 12 Steps, and other Conference-approved material in religiously neutral language, debates and defences (for either side) will continue incessantly.
For the foreseeable future, the only pragmatic solution I can envision is what we currently have: meeting groups, literature, and websites (like AA Agnostica) that carry the secular message that sobriety and recovery don’t require God or religion. And we will not budge!
Ultimately, Andy, the resistance to a religious AA perspective in your essay contributes to our secular defence and message, even if others won’t be convinced by the specifics of your reasoning.
I appreciate your comments John. I am doing everything in my power to fight in the corner of secular AA. I have had nasty run ins with the religious fundamentalists in the program. I have written books and write blogs to promote secular AA. I will not rest until our voice as non-believers is heard and respected and the voices of religious fundamentalists are seen for what they are; part of the disease! Best wishes
Andy, I appreciate the discussion. I would like to point you to the 11th tradition of Alcoholics Anonymous as designed by its founders and see how you connect this very public forum with the principles found in that tradition.
Hi Michael. The 11th tradition states “Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films” I’m sorry mate, but I fail to see what this tradition has to do with this forum. It is after all a very public forum and as such affords participants the freedom to say whatever they want to say. This forum is in no way connected to the press, radio, or films. Best regards
Yes, The LP is standard in Orlando Fl.
Hi Jennifer, Unless it is voted in by a group conscience, the Lord’s Prayer has no place at an AA meeting. Best wishes
This is a great article and well documented. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words Gary. Best wishes
Hi all,
Thanks for the read, I have been around AA for a long time and have come to terms that there will probably always be God botherers espousing the false information that “If you don’t get God in your life,you will go mad and pick up”.
My experience as a Humanist is to hopefully share my experience in the rooms that recovery can be enjoyed without the Need for a supernatural and interventionist diety.
I have personally never seen or experience God in a meeting, I have always encountered people though reading the preamble and connecting with this. For me this is enough.
Thanks
David
Thanks for your comments David. I also have great difficulty with the religious fundamentalists in AA. I have seen them do considerable harm to vulnerable newcomers. I wrote a book called “You can’t be a real alcoholic if you don’t believe in God.” A free PDF copy is available on my website. My spirituality is entity non-religious and very much New Age. Best regards David
It astonishes me how hostile many in AA are towards change and thoughtful reflection. Refusal to update the archaic foundational literature. Change two benign words in the preamble to one benign word, and it starts a civil war. Treat the steps and traditions as chiseled in granite never to be challenged or revisited. Tell the falsehood that alcohol addiction is an allergy. The unwillingness to recognize that the public perception of AA as a religion and a cult is in large measure a product of our own behavior. AA is frozen in time, rigidity, and self-righteousness.
Amen! I’d challenge everyone to stop participating in the prayers and chants for a month or so and just listen to what it sounds like and then imagine what a newcomer must think…
Thanks for your comments Rob. Every newcomer should be given the “God” word pamphlet and it should be on the literature table of every AA meeting worldwide. Best wishes
Hi David, I agree with you 100%! The AA conference needs to make some radical changes to it’s “public relations policy.” I understand that the UK Agnostic group responsible for the publica6of the “God” word pamphlet, had a very long and frustrating battle with conference to get that pamphlet published. What’s the matter with these people?? They are cutting off their noses to spite their face! Best regards
>>>The Lord’s prayer<<>>>>Recently, at one of my home groups, the person elected to lead the meeting did something that I am sure most members of the secular fellowship would feel uncomfortable with. I wasn’t present at this particular meeting but was told about it by an AA buddy who was. At the close of the meeting, he asked everyone to stand and recite the Lord’s Prayer. Do you think this action could be considered standard AA practice?<<<<<<<
Is the "what you hear here stays here'" something that is void in the scheme of things? I was very interested in this blog and yet reading that this is someones breach of confidence made me sad. There are things that are not religious like WHAT YOU HEAR HERE STAYS HERE but a fundamental part of the trust process.
I’m sorry Maxine but I do not view this as breaking anonymity. I didn’t mention names, I didn’t mention, the group, or the location. I shared in a general way because this is an issue that can affect the secular fellowship. Unless these things kind of occurrences are brought out into the open, we have no way of addressing the religiosity that is a reality on the AA landscape. Best wishes
“What you hear here stays here” has it’s limitations. It’s predicated on the expectation that people behave responsibly and with some degree of maturity. There is a history of anti-social abusive behavior in meetings and seems to be an ongoing reality of the fellowship. Attend secular AA for any length of time and you hear a plethora of stories of gaslighting, mind-f******, homophobia, sexual harassment, people being lied to that they won’t get sober without God and/or the Big Book, beliefs being invalidated often in passive aggressive ways, etc. Religious abuse is a common experience many addicts have lived through. Demanding people stay quiet and don’t discuss problematic situations enables the negative behavior and can create an unsafe environment. It’s also insulting to tell victims they’re not allowed to discuss traumatic experiences outside the confines of where the meeting it took place. We get into trouble when we treat the traditions and guiding principles as holy commandments to be obeyed blindly.
I understand your point of view. Yet a person told you about a situation in a meeting where WHAT YOU HEAR HERE STAYS HERE was not honored. It is like having spys on the inside – Names are not important as the person who did this and the person who shared the info will know – the person who did this is now exposed and the person who shared this info is exposed. What about their feelings? Trust!!!
I am a Buddhist and have no belief in a god based program or religion. Sharing what happens at meetings is a tradition not based on god but on keeping the inner workings private.
I also hear where you are coming from Maxine and I respect your point of view. In this case though, I don’t think I violated anyone’s confidence or trust. I shared this information on a forum which will not reach a single member of that group. Yet at this meeting Agnostics were subjected to the Lord’s prayer without their consent. Isn’t that a violation of their TRUST?
Yes it is – in fact at one meeting it was said that NA is a god based program. In the big book lol not the bible there is a sentence or two about the agnostic no god believer. I thought oh wow thanks for that. But really it is sad that something so powerful got misused and is keeping people out of the rooms. And the % is so small of the ones who actually get clean sober etc. actually stay clean.
The drug problem is not handled well as the old timers have no idea other than watching their children die from drugs what a real problem feels like. My heart hurts when keeping an open mind is preached, being honest is as well and being willing is asked of us. I have to smirk as how can someone be willing when they turn their life and will over to god. (which imho there is no god).
Again thank you for this safe place.
Being involved in 12 step programs since 1978 was difficult indeed as I am a Buddhist and there is no god or religion in my spiritual practice just Cause & Effect. There are 2 Buddhist recovery networks that do not use the god word.
Finding secular meetings was another safe place to stay clean. I am grateful for this space the books the thoughts the energy that goes into making this a real place to get sober, clean and free from addiction.
Humbly thanking you with Gratitude.
Hey Maxine. Be realistic. Las Vegas’s old ad campaign was what happened there would stay there. In actuality, people couldn’t (and still can’t) wait to share what, who they saw and heard while there. It’s human nature. Members of the program are no different; it’s just that some people have scruples to guide them by. I had a fellowship member once approach me about a situation I found myself in. The only person I’d shared it with WAS my sponsor. Trust is hard to come by. Not everyone invests in it like they should.
Excellent discussion, Andy. I appreciate the way you clearly and intelligently present the fact that the door to recovery is open to all. AA has survived opinionated fundamentalism, and will continue to do so. In my view, there are 2 main reasons that people either choose to not attend (or stay with) AA. Either they do not want to stop drinking, or they dislike the program. Much of the dislike has to do with the God idea or God word that they hear. Some of this is unavoidable because AA is what it is, and because people have experiences that affect their sense of comfort with religion or the idea of God. Earlier this year I published a book, Seeking a Higher Power: A Guide to the Second Step. I present both theistic and non-theistic ideas that could help someone who does want to stop drinking, but who struggles with the God idea. Others have written books that also address these issues and are often helpful. Please keep up the good work of inserting intelligence and common sense into this area of dispute.
Hi Michael. Many thanks for you comments. I was one of the ones that had negative experiences with religion in childhood. It was a real problem when I got to AA and contributed to years of relapse. Eventually, I overcame my prejudice with the help of agnostic-friendly sponsors. Today, I have found a non-theistic spirituality that has kept me sober for many years. Good luck with your book. Best wishes
Thank you for your presentation. It is clear that you do not believe that AA was not a religion, when you first entered into AA. I agree with you regarding that understanding. Many of the individuals had their copies of Language of the Heart, which had printed many of Bill’s personal opinions as the leader of AA before he turned over the leadership to the Convention. In the articles regarding the proposed Traditions, he stated clearly many times that AA should not become religious in any sense of the word. What he did not do was change the wording of Alcoholics Anonymous, chapter five.
There were at least two members in the heated arguments regarding the steps’ religious wording in the New York group, Jim and Hank. Since Hank and Bill had formed a business which hired some of the AA members to sell car products to car dealers in New York and New England, they sent Jim to Boston so they could have a group meeting on what to do with Jim. Without help from any of the members, Bill was able to return and continue his resistance to the God word. So some of the religious expressions were removed, but still were replaced with others. God into “higher power” et cetera.
A religion, excluding examples, according to the English Oxford Dictionary, Third Edition, is as a noun “the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or or gods; a particular system of faith and worship; a pursuit or interest, followed with great devotion.”
Since 1980, when I came into AA, I was open about being an atheist. Very few tried to change my mind regarding the existing religious climate. Many people came to me with references to Bill’s articles, published in the 1940s and 1950s in the Grapevine to show me that AA didn’t want to be religion. At that time Bill’s ideas were AA policy.
That policy started changing in the early 60’s and has continued to do so until now. Isolation is one way to prevent atheists, free-thinkers and agnostics from telling newcomers that they didn’t have to believe in Christianity to become sober, or to be accepted as a full member of AA. I am called to speak, usually be members who came in at or before my time, only once or twice a year. And I am not talking about chairing a meeting, just responding to the chair’s requests for member comments.
AA’s unofficial policy of keeping non-believers silent is strongly enforced in my state. It’s also getting stronger and stronger. It is similar to Plato’s execution in Athens. He was given the poison and told that if he didn’t want to die, he could simply change his beliefs and teach his students that the Athens’ gods did exist, and were the most important in Greece. He refused and drank the poison.
I won’t shut up, and I won’t admit to what I do not believe. AA is continuing to lose a great many members. What I believe is that AA will continue to prosper only if the hard-core christians stop telling newcomers to AA that they have to believe in their god and act like they do. I hope they do so, so that the non-coerced newcomers will be willing to keep coming back.
I love AA, and I will continue to try to get other nonbelievers to attend as many regular AA meeting so they can make friends and start opening up as non-believers.
John W.
The shift in AA towards fundamentalism was before my time. I’ve heard antidotally that a significant departure from anything that isn’t conference approved occurred in the 1990s. Policing individual meetings for strict adherence to the Big Book is a war the theistic bigots can’t win given that meetings are autonomous entities. I’m noting a growing number of what can best be described as niche peer support meetings which attract people with a specific issue, be it sexual orientation, gender, minority, theistic belief, mental health issue, etc. Online meetings have opened up options that largely didn’t exist before the pandemic. Meanwhile GSO/AAWS continues to trot out the How It Work version of the 12 steps as a panacea and ignore anything else that might be of value to recovering addicts in the 21st century. It’s an excellent strategy to use in it’s march towards oblivion. I’m eagerly waiting for a Latin version of the Big Book.
Thanks for your comments John. I also love AA and am angry about the harm and dis-unity that has been caused in AA by the growth of religious fundamentalism. They have completely ignored Bill’s wish that AA should forever be all-inclusive. You might be interested in a blog I wrote about it which I called “Big Book Thumpers”
https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/big-book-thumpers/
When I called GSO in New York, they confirmed that the AA program is “Open to personal interpretation” – Every newcomer who identifies as a non-believer, should be reassured of that fact! Best wishes John
Funny, I’m waiting for a Graphic Novel version to get published. Very good points indeed. The times, they are a changin’, constantly!
From my AI Buddy Perplexity:
Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) is not officially a religion, but it is explicitly spiritual and uses a lot of religious-sounding concepts and practices, which is why people disagree about it. Some courts in the United States have treated AA as “religious” for constitutional purposes when deciding whether the government can mandate attendance, even though AA itself insists it is a spiritual, not religious, program.
What AA says about itself
AA describes its program as “spiritual rather than religious,” emphasizing a “Higher Power” of each person’s own understanding instead of a specific creed or denomination. Official AA materials stress that they are not allied with any sect or church and that people of any faith or none are welcome.
Why many see it as religious
AA’s 12 steps refer repeatedly to God or a Higher Power, involve prayer and meditation, and speak of a “spiritual awakening,” which closely resemble elements of traditional religions. Meetings often include group prayers (such as the Serenity Prayer), readings from foundational texts (the “Big Book”), moral inventory, confession, and amends, all of which look like religious rituals to many observers.
Legal and practical implications
Because of this spiritual framework, several U.S. court decisions have ruled that mandating AA attendance can violate the separation of church and state, treating AA as religious for legal purposes. In practice, some people experience AA as a flexible spiritual support group, while others experience it as functionally religious and prefer more secular alternatives.
Last drink Mar 26, 1982. Last bit of insanity probably yesterday. Yet still no REALLY good reason to take the FIRST one. For me AA opened the door to an infinite universe which continues to grow each day.
JonBchronic