ICAA ‘25: Celebrating Secular Sobriety

By Rady A.

I registered in February for the quinquennial International Convention of AA held in Vancouver, British Columbia in July. Three omens bode well for atheists and agnostics in AA: Secular AA was given three time slots, instead of the usual one; none of the Big Meetings at these Conventions will close with the Lord’s Prayer anymore, and the very first keynote speaker, at the Friday opening ceremony, was a lesbian who didn’t mention any theism, except for her opening comment: “Omagod!”

Omg, is this my kind of AA meeting or what?!?  My tribe got featured at AA’s 90th birthday bash! Joe C, chair of the One Big Tent panel, reported that the organizing committee wanted to hear from minorities – the voices not often headlining AA’s big events. They hit the mark. Secular AA’s three panels hosted ten speakers, and a few other speeches that weekend were nontheistic.

Am I seeing a change a’coming?  In 2017, AA’s 21 Trustees voted unanimously to delist the Toronto Area Intergroup because it asserted in court that it was a religious organization. AA is pretty clear in its preamble, traditions and basic texts that we are not affiliated with any religion. The Toronto Intergroup used that defense because they were sued in the Canada Human Rights Tribunal for delisting the local secular groups. That the Trustees unanimously defended our traditions, and thus secular AA, still fills me with profound relief and gratitude.

I heard more stories, though, at the Convention, about area intergroups across the US still delisting or refusing to list secular groups. I heard about General Service and District Area meetings refusing to hear objections to using prayer at these business meetings. Westside Agnostics was delisted from the Online Intergroup of AA for a bit in the past year and when asked about it, they relisted all the meetings and then denied knowing how or why it happened. Jan B ‘could not find any order to remove.’  OIAA is hosting secular speakers at its November conference, and “secular” is one of its filters when hunting down an online meeting, so the deletion was surprising.

Many people balk at the ridiculous and untrue slogan, ‘You won’t stay sober if you don’t find god.’ But AA newbies, unfamiliar with the traditions, take it as AA truth. A hardening fundamentalism within AA threatens to close the door on agnostics and atheists, or anyone wanting to gain sobriety without having to endure religious instruction. It seems the issue is not going away. Just this year, some lady poked me hard in the shoulder when I didn’t stand up quickly enough for the closing prayer. Hostility toward non-theists is alive and well in AA meetings in 2025.

Many agnostics compromise with the issue by saying, ‘I don’t know about God, I just know that I’m not God.’ But even that idea doesn’t go far enough for me, because my religion teaches that God dwells within me as me; that God dwells within you as you. That ‘unsuspected inner resource’ is my Higher Self, as is the ‘Great Reality Deep Within’ mentioned in the Big Book.

This flies in the face of some external being, which is what the fundamentalists want from all of us – an admission that we ourselves are not the directors of our own lives, our own sobriety. Control must be turned over to a supernatural interventionist deity. My atheist father who stayed sober 56 years until his death would beg to differ.

Maybe the lessons from AA’s focus in Vancouver to hear more from minorities will reach the wider membership. It’ll certainly help that the August 2025 Grapevine issue focuses on atheists and agnostics. Addressing the growing religiosity could reverse AA’s shrinking membership. AA’s own surveys of its membership show that in the 21st Century, AA is growing older, whiter and more male. Pew Research found in 2022 that over 40% of those between 20 and 34 are religiously unaffiliated. Young people seem to be seeking alternative recovery programs that don’t promote AA’s theism.

Secular AA is a safe haven for this demographic who could reinvigorate AA, if only the theists would admit that sobriety without God is not only possible, but preferred by a growing segment of the general population. With AA’s leadership supporting us so openly, secular AA’s continued presence, and our growing body of recovery literature, we may soften the hearts of AA theists. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Or, perhaps AA will survive like a stew, with special interest groups continuing to stick to their own kind, and mainstream AA continuing to grow older, whiter and more male, passionately attached to a religious interpretation of the 12-step recovery process.


Rady is a lifelong member of AA, having started her journey toward sobriety at age 16. No longer in need of religious instruction, she prefers her 12-step meetings to be conducted in practical, non religious terms.


37 Responses

  1. Sher says:

    Thank you so much! Well said!!!

  2. Margarita says:

    I, too, was heartened to hear of the Vancouver conference emphasis on Unity over Uniformity. Thanks for sharing!

  3. Cowboy says:

    Comes under the heading of, live and let live.

  4. Lance B. says:

    Great report and encouraging progress led by AA in Canada. I’m glad I live within 250 miles of your extraordinary country.

  5. Malcolm says:

    Wonderful article on a timely topic for me – I live in an area that will not list secular AA meetings in the guide – I attended some of the secular sessions in Vancouver and found the road to my deepest recovery yet – your article is outstanding and my hope is your message gets carried around areas so secular AA gets the attention it deserves.

    Thanks again!

    M

    • RADY says:

      Thanks for your kind comments Malcolm! And good luck on overturning attitudes in your area. Ugh… The Rev. Ward Ewing wrote an article in the August 2025 Grapevine that condemns those intergroups for delisting us. It’s a reprint from his impression of the 2014 secular AA conference… worth the read.

  6. Stuart W. says:

    In the UK, it seems all listed meetings are religion based rather than spiritual. You can find non religious meetings but they are few and far between. I’m so thankful of the hope from your article; that we might reduce the huge numbers of alcoholics, and addicts of other things, that leave after their first ‘religion based’ meeting. Thank you.

    • Martin N. says:

      I’m from the U.S. My wife and I attended several meeting in London in May/June of last year. They had never heard of secular AA. They do now! It was a fairly large meeting upstairs; an alano type facility. Good bunch. One fella approached me after the meeting and thanked me for talking about it. However, the meeting, although not secular, did not use any prayers or have any mentions of a higher power. That seems to be standard in Europe.

    • RADY says:

      Thx for your comments Stuart; I’m hopeful too.

  7. Paul R says:

    Published in AA Cleveland’s Central Bulletin of August 2025:

    AA’s International Convention in Vancouver – What? No Our Father?

    Friday night’s opening Flag Ceremony and Big Meeting were moving and awe-inspiring pageants with fife & drums, a parade of country flags, and three keynote mini-Leads. The fact that the Convention chose not to end with the Our Father was lamented by some AAs.

    I realized that out of the 80+ countries attending many different religions were represented. I asked myself if the Our Father was prayed in India or Japan. Then I got to further thinking, “Haven’t AAs been having this discussion for a long, long (too long?) time?”

    Jim B., who got sober in January of 1938, was an agnostic who insisted it was possible to stay sober and not believe in God. Unfortunately, for the most part, his insights as a non-religious AA fell by the wayside. It would take 80 more years for AA to publish Grapevine’s “One Big Tent” in 2018 (42 years after it was first proposed). The issue addressed the experiences of atheists, agnostics, nonbelievers, and secular alcoholics who found recovery in AA despite groups not considering (dismissing?) their spiritual beliefs. Our own Preamble states “AA is not allied with any sect, denomination…”

    Several federal appeals courts have ruled that the government cannot force people to attend AA if they object on religious grounds because the program is religious in nature. In “Warner v. Orange County Department of Probation,” the court specifically ruled “A.A. meetings often close with the Lord’s Prayer.”

    In a 1959 letter Bill justified the use. “Nevertheless, this Prayer (Our Father) is of such widespread use and recognition…” He reconsidered a mere two years later writing in 1961, “I have been reflecting lately on how much A.A. has ‘drifted toward the religious’ and how this tendency could drive away many alcoholics who might otherwise have found help.” Further, Bill could not have foreseen AA’s 2025 global reach.

    So, I have a modest proposal. I suggest that Cleveland area group consciences consider ending their meetings with AA’s responsibility statement, “I am responsible. When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there. And for that: I am responsible.” It brings meeting closure, directly reminds us of our primary purpose, and puts up a few more tent poles. (The author quotes from AA’s Preamble, Grapevine’s “One Big Tent,” Pass It On, and AA Agnostica.)

    • RADY says:

      Wow Paul, great article. Cleveland AA has gotten so religious that this discussion needs to happen.

    • Jim says:

      I loved a quote and asked the Cleveland Bulletin for the source of the quote in the article “I have been reflecting lately on how much A.A. has ‘drifted toward the religious’ and how this tendency could drive away many alcoholics who might otherwise have found help.”

      I received the following response. The author …was unable to verify the source of the quote and asked me to remove it from the article.

      Jim

  8. Fred VW says:

    There’s no sign at the door of a religious AA meeting that says “alternate AA down the hall”. Newbies have to discover non religious meetings mostly by chance. In rural areas (where guess what? there are alcoholic too!) poor internet and meetings 30 miles away make it even harder. The powers that be who control AA should be deeply alarmed and ashamed. Thank goodness there are secular meetings online. It’s knowing they exist that’s the problem.

    • RADY says:

      Good points Fred; and supports the idea that we need to advertise our existence within live meetings. OIAA, aa-intergroup.org, has a “secular” filter which is its own form of advertising.

  9. John M. says:

    A friend was visiting Vancouver Island from Edmonton, and she asked me to join her at a meeting not too far away from my home that I had never been to. One of the guys who shared mentioned “God,” then quickly said, “or your higher power, as you understand him,” and then proceeded to say, “Oh, let’s not kid ourselves, God is mentioned all the time in The Big Book, so there’s no denying that this is a religious program.”

    I didn’t “make a scene” with my sharing by “correcting” him, but my humanist, fellowship-solution perspective in what I had to say was definitely more pronounced on this day than is generally the case.

    I bring this up only to confirm that this is still the AA environment that allows a member to so freely (and comfortably) say what he said about God and religion in AA. Yes, secularity in AA has made gains, as far as acceptance goes, but we still have a ways to go.

  10. Joe M says:

    Totally Badass writing Rady. Straight to the point. Was an absolute pleasure to read this. What is OIAA?

  11. Michel says:

    Thanks Rady,
    It reminds me that there is a lot of work to do in order to make AA more relevant to the still suffering alcoholic.
    But I am also proud of the inroads secular meetings have made in the last few years.

    Michel D.
    Ottawa, ON

    • RADY says:

      it was a pleasure to meet you and hear your story, Michel. I hope to run into somewhere online. I was in Toronto last wknd for Bob K’s thing.

    • RADY says:

      you all have done so much in your areas of Canada Michel — we are ALL indebted to your perseverance and I don’t know what happened to my other comment but I’m glad we met and that I got to hear your story. Nice job in Vancouver.

  12. Our Freethinkers meeting in Rochester NY started while the Ontario CA delisting was being litigated. We too had been enjoined and threatened with delisting if we continued to read a secular version of the Steps. We followed the proceedings and used the results to be able to be in AA autonomously.
    Hooray.
    Recently I have started a podcast that can be found on Spotify called AS TIM SEES IT.
    I’m pleased to say that it has been well received and I have been encouraged to continue.

    • RADY says:

      Good luck with your podcast, Tim, and thanks for your resilience in the face of fanaticism. I’d like to learn more about being “in AA autonomously”. Whatever does that mean?

  13. Gary M. says:

    Truth be told, female membership in AA has increased significantly over the past couple of decades.

  14. RADY says:

    Thanks for publishing this article on my 31st soberversary, Roger!

  15. Jason W. says:

    Great article. I’m sure many in attendance have more evidence that AA is “going woke” by not chanting the Christian prayer at the end of the meeting.

    It seems more important to them that alcoholics find their version of God than alcoholics getting sober.

    This is the type of thinking that makes people say “If you aren’t ready to believe in God you need to keep drinking”.

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