Is God Fact or Fiction?

I originally published this article on March 31, 2023. I have edited it a little bit. I hope you like it and I look forward to comments about this article…

Oh, and by the way, please consider writing an article for AA Agnostica. That would be great! And you can send it to me at aaagnostica@gmail.com.

By Roger C.

I quit believing in a God when I was 19 years old.

I was brought up as a Catholic. My mother was very religious, and she certainly pushed it on me, on all of her five children, and on others as well. When her brother – my uncle – quit going to church and stopped believing in a deity, for years she would have absolutely nothing to do with him.

We went to a Catholic church – 3 ½ miles away – every Sunday.

When I was in grade 2, I was put in a Catholic school. After I entered the classroom and chose a desk, this is the very first thing I heard: “Debout, Tourner, À genoux”. Stand up, Turn, On your knees. And then we would say the Lord’s Prayer.

This was done every morning.

That wasn’t all. Regularly, a priest would show up and we would have to do confessions. We were required to come up with a list of sins we committed and tell it to the priest. I would often have to invent some sins because, well, I couldn’t think of anything that I had done wrong. Of course the confessions would end with a prayer.

For the record, in the United States, the Lord’s Prayer was prohibited in public schools in 1962. In Canada it wasn’t until 1988 that the use of the Lord’s Prayer in public schools ended. The Ontario Court of Appeal ruled that the “recitation of the Lord’s Prayer … imposes religious observances on nonbelievers” and that is a violation of an individual’s freedom of conscience.

Regarding this decision by the Ontario Court of Appeal, let me just say this: “Thank God”.

After attending the Catholic school for six years, I was off to high school.

At the time there was a grade thirteen. It was then that I literally exploded and decided that there was no God. None of the God stuff made any sense to me.

A God, a Heaven, a Hell, and a Purgatory? Is this something I was supposed to believe? If I was a good enough person when I died, would I be in purgatory for a number of years and in Heaven for an eternity? This makes zero sense at all to me.

Again, at age 19, I quit believing in a God. Frankly, because religion had been forced upon me as a child, the non-belief was an existential crisis. If a God doesn’t exist what now is my life all about? I quit high school and started hitchhiking all over Canada. And then what did I do?

I decided to go to university. What was I doing there? I was studying religion! I simply wanted to know if the God thing was Fact or Fiction.

I got a Bachelor of Arts degree in Religious Studies at Laurentian University in 1978. Later on, I went to McGill University in Montreal. I got a Master of Arts degree in Religious Studies there in 1982.

More about McGill. I was there for several years. I taught. I learned. I even learned Koine Greek so I could read the New Testament in its original language. In all my time there, there was never any evidence or proof that a God existed. Believing in a God has nothing to do with logic. It’s faith. And this is the definition of faith in the New Testament (in Hebrews 11): “Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.”

The God thing is Faith. Nothing to do with Fact.

Alright, moving on.

The God concept is often pushed on people. Sad but true. I talked about how that happened to me when I was a child. But it also happened to me in recent years.

I am a recovered alcoholic. I drank like a fiend for many, many years. Finally in 2010, after a DUI, I quit drinking. So, I have now been sober for over fifteen years.

And, like most people in recovery, I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, otherwise known as AA. Worldwide there are two million members of AA. There are, in Hamilton, 49 AA groups that have a least one meeting a week.

And let’s be clear. Traditional AA pushes God on folks in recovery. One of the very few “approved” books in the fellowship – published in 1939, it is called Alcoholics Anonymous – mentions God (or Him, etc.) 281 times in its first 164 pages. The book includes 12 Steps – each one of these steps is meant to help people get, and stay, sober – and six of these 12 steps refer to God. By the way, this book is also frequently called the Big Book.

Another thing: many traditional AA meetings end with the Lord’s Prayer. It’s not allowed anymore in schools but is very, very regular at the end of Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

Early on I was often told that unless I came to believe in a God, I would again be a drunk. For the record, that is Fiction. Not Fact.

Indeed, as the author of Alcoholics Anonymous, Bill Wilson, put it years after the book was published:

In AA’s first years I all but ruined the whole undertaking… God as I understood Him had to be for everybody. Sometimes my aggression was subtle and sometimes it was crude. But either way it was damaging – perhaps fatally so – to numbers of non-believers.

Early in sobriety, I became a member of a secular AA group in Toronto called Beyond Belief. The group was booted out of AA in 2011. Why? Because we had removed God from the 12 Steps. A half a dozen years later the group was legally returned to the Toronto AA Intergroup.

Back in July 2011, because we had been booted out, I launched a website called AA Agnostica. Its goal was to help people in recovery who by and large considered God a Fiction. The website is still up, alive, and popular worldwide. And posting new articles.

To date, there has been a total of over 5 million people who have read articles on my AA Agnostica website.

And let me add that over the years I have published thirteen books. Many of them are about secular sobriety. I’ll mention just two of them. One of my favourites is a book written by two women which was initially published way back in 1991. It’s called The Alternative 12 Steps – A Secular Guide to Recovery. And in response to the Big Book, I wrote and published The Little Book – A Collection of Alternative 12 Steps. This book contains 20 secular versions of the 12 Steps, four non-godly interpretations of each of them and, finally, an article on the origins of the 12 Steps.

Okay, one of the things I really wanted to say today is this: no one should push their beliefs on others. I mentioned earlier how that was done to me. It’s wrong. It’s awful.

In 2016, I launched an AA meeting which is held every Monday and Thursday at the Unitarian Universalist Church here in Hamilton. It’s called “We Agnostics” – the title of chapter 4 of the Big Book. There are people at these meetings who believe in a God. Others believe that God is Fiction. The folks at our meetings can believe whatever they want but they understand that they should not – and they do not – push it on others. We are all respectful of each other, regardless of our beliefs or non-beliefs.

Finally, I will try to answer one last question.

If I don’t believe in a God, what do I think living my life is all about? That’s the question I asked myself way back then, when I was 19 years old. Well, I’m going to be silly and mention my favorite band, The Beatles. Life to me is well described in the name of one of their albums. It’s a Magical Mystery Tour. Surprisingly I enjoy each and every day. It’s my tour. The magical mystery one. And the title of the last song on the album is “All You Need Is Love.”

I agree. That’s something we all need. Not Fiction.


For a PDF of this article, click here: Is God Fact or Fiction.


 

21 Responses

  1. Thanks Rogers. So very well said. My journey was a little different in that I woke up later in my life and investigated ALL religions very thoroughly and realized that the One True God I was indoctrinated with was the foundation of all the religions. It truly baffles me that the LP is still the closing of many meetings and is extraordinarily offensive to so many who don’t believe in the Big Him or have a different concept of their own spiritual belief. Particularly women who have been abused and distrust men. The BB is full of hims. Don’t get me started on “To Wives” which is truly offensive. Thanks goodness for secular AA. A beacon in the darkness for so many of us.

  2. Teresa J. says:

    Roger! Thank you…I don’t remember reading this before, though I probably did.

    I love your answer to “the question” at the end. Yes…it’s a mystery and love…let there be love! I have faith, hope and love…not in an omnipotent being…in humanity…even in these trying times. If I did not, surely I would be consuming alcohol, and I cannot drink alcohol safely. Thanks for AA Agnostica, it certainly has helped my continued sobriety.

    Teresa J ~ Monterey CA

  3. George H says:

    What was time, place and context Bill W later statement?

  4. Amylynn K. says:

    I like the expression”…take what you like and leave the rest”. It gives lots of wiggle room for concepts of higher power for me. I have irreligious background (dismissive as a child i suppose…) but my first higher power was my deceased grandpa who as reported was a drinker (but heaven forbid not an ALCHOLHIC!!!) and possibly died from the disease! Most meetings here in Sussex County, Delaware close with Our Father prayer… Some on (gratefully) the Responsibility statement. I will recite the Serenity Prayer to myself if the meeting closes with Lords Prayer. I like having a choice and not needing to be pigeon holed into anything AA practices.. I don’t drink, get to meetings, and stay connected to service. It seems to be working for me, just for today!

  5. Stephanie B. says:

    EXCEPTIONAL!

    Now let’s see if I can eventually send you a story. Thank you for sharing, reiterating history (Bill’s and AA Agnostica) and motivating.

    Most sincerely,
    Stephanie B. Iowa

  6. Bc says:

    Modern day AA is mostly secular. Modern day AA pushes … shoves… atheism. You are in the AA majority, no worries .

  7. Lance B. says:

    I have loved this description of your history ever since you wrote it, Roger. And I have loved aaagnostica.org ever since I discovered it–when?–about 2013? It was soon enough to become excited by and to travel to the first convention in Santa Monica. What a magical weekend that was! For the first time to realize I was not alone. And to realize how there were so many people willing and able to express their beliefs confidently and openly. I followed John H. around like a puppy. And I announced the secular Beyond Belief meeting in Miles City, MT during that weekend. It’s been open every Sunday morning since.

    But I have been unable to find other people in this area with the passion for secular AA that I have. There are some non-believers who believe they are alcoholic but seem to be ho hum about it. The ones I see have already been sober for some time or seem to be confident that they simply screwed up and have their lives well under control. I regularly bring up my love for aaagnostica at that meeting but as far as I know only one very outspoken atheist from Las Vegas has looked it up. Maybe they have and just didn’t mention it to me. Why don’t they feel the passion I do?

    And another question! Why doesn’t my passion extend far enough to make a real effort to write at least one article for aaagnostica. Lack of discipline I guess. I like to think and write. But to put it down in a longer orderly way just takes too much dedicated effort. I do very much appreciate all the talented effort Roger, Bob, Life, et al put in and can barely imagine the amount of discipline and clear thinking they have done to accomplish so much. And then there’s the one shot wonder of the article by –oh, what was his name–I could look it up but the article starts “So you think you might be” addicted and maybe it’s just the dope sickness talking, etc. (No time now and I probably won’t get back at it after the meeting this morning). Written way back and I think Roger has said it’s the most highly sought article ever on aaagnostica. What a marvel and I have it copied in our notebook at the club. It touched me but I’ve shown it to others and received no excited response. What the heck? That’s the way the author talks in that article. Are the other meetings I no longer can attend so improved that there is no proselytizing? I doubt that. Actually all AA meetings in my district seem to be dying and at my age I suspect the secular one I began will die with me as well.

    If anything, I suspect the Christian proselytizing has become even more pronounced. So it seems people are staying away but not so frustrated by the dogma as to come to the secular meeting Sunday mornings. ZOOM partly. Covid partly. Requirement for threshold size partially. A more talented chairman partly. Ennui partly. And just the decline of group participation everywhere partly.

    I’m getting into some interesting speculation now and it’s time to head for the meeting. Will I do some more later? That requires discipline and I’m weak. Thanks, Roger. Maybe I’ll at least make another donation to show my appreciation for all you do.

    My best to you.

  8. Doris M. says:

    Religious belief has nothing to do with recovery. Although some individuals find such beliefs give them psychic strength to carry on in their recovery, such beliefs are not essential for recovery. Religious belief/non‐belief is an outside issue. Talking about it is a waste of time.

  9. Eddie says:

    Fantastic, similar problem with being raised in a catholic family. Finally approaching 70 years have taken atheism as part and parcel of my sobriety.

    Thank you.

  10. Kenny says:

    Awesome Article! I hate anyone telling me what I should do or believe in. Show me in your actions what you believe in, and if I am attracted to that, I may ask for your help. I am sober a little over six years and have done that mostly in Traditional AA with a traditional AA home group. Also with a Buddhist recovery group, “Recovery Dharma“.My AA group is very loving but sometimes some of the members think they know stuff and try and explain it to the group as if it was the truth. Frankly, I think some of them are assholes! I am quite happy having done the practical aspects of the steps and achieving practical results by not picking up and by doing as much of the right thing as I can one day at a time. I think for the most part we reap what we sow most of the time. Who knows? The bottom line is if I didn’t hurt anybody today and did my best to do the right thing I lie down at night happy and peaceful. I am very thankful to be sober. Thanks for your efforts!☺️

  11. Anonymous says:

    Thank you Roger.

  12. Roger, thanks for sharing your thoughts. On page 60 of the Big book the third of the three “pertinent ideas” says “God could and would if He were sought.” My emphasis is on the word “sought,” rather than on the word “God.” Philosophers from Meister Eckhart to Joseph Campbell agree that it is humanly impossible to conceive of god as god is. According to my understanding of AA, which has worked for me for many years, is that I can choose my own conception of a higher power, be it theistic or not. The emphasis on god with a big G is simply a reflection of the larger society in which we find ourselves. I refuse to let myself get caught up in secular vs. religious controversy, and I really don’t care whether a meeting that I attend closes with the Lord’s Prayer or not. I try to take everything in a spirit of love. This is what works for me.

    • Anonymous says:

      Thanks to a good sponsor I became a seeker 38 years ago. Thanks to secular AA I gave up seeking 9 years ago. Thanks to guys like Roger, Joe and many others for making secular AA available to the masses.
      Ralph B. Langley BC

  13. Johny says:

    I’ve been an atheist since the age of reason. I realized that the Bible was just a book of stories that were meant for manipulation, cause fear and to control people. It’s all made up bullshit. Ask yourself this question, if you never heard of the Bible and it was a new book that was just published and there was no religion in the world, would you believe it? I would think the answer would overwhelmingly be no.

  14. Ron says:

    Magical Mystery Tour – Love it!!

  15. Proxy B. says:

    You’re so interesting! I do not think I’ve read through something like that before.

    So nice to find someone with a few genuine thoughts on this subject.

    Really… many thanks for starting this up. This site is one thing that is needed on the internet, someone with a bit of originality!

  16. Pat A W. says:

    There are no agnostic groups near me. I wanted to be with seniors like me. I was very fortunate that the counsellor in my group understood that I didn’t really want to be praying to “God”, so he suggested I find a higher power. I chose my dad. He had been an alcoholic for a good long time, I think, and he quit. Just like that. On holidays I would ask him to take a little wine, and he said if he has a little, he’ll finish the bottle, and he stood fast. I understand that now. He wasn’t a great dad in many ways, but I admired that.

  17. John M. says:

    Just got back from a holiday up north on Vancouver Island and I was glad to see your essay here, Roger. Great ending. All you need is love and some service. The service you have rendered over the years by way of AA Agnostica has been invaluable. Best of all, I’ve gotten to know you, Roger, and you are a model of what sobriety and recovery should look like. Be well, my friend.

  18. jeanne says:

    This article asks such profound questions I admire how it invites readers to think critically about faith, belief, and the nature of truth in such a respectful, thought-provoking way.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Translate »

Discover more from AA Agnostica

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading